how to make equo world ignore packages?

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how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby dagurasu » Wed Apr 22, 2009 14:38

There has got to be some way to get entropy to understand that some package is just none of its business to mess with, and should even be a way for it to pretend that the package is installed so that things that depend on it can still install (albeit possibly broken install) things that depend on it.

I use portage for a couple of packages. One or two of those do exist in entropy. I am well aware of the dangers and possibilities of things getting broken.
Anyway there are reasons why I use portage for those packages so I put them in entropy package.mask to get entropy to leave them alone. Sadly... as I knew would happen, all this did was to remind me later which packages I may need to emerge (that's good), but it also prevented entropy from doing world updates because there is no best effort option for an "equo world".

I realize that this functionality can horribly break lots of dependancies... yada yada.. no seriously... I know. Package.provided is probably safer than a --force option of some kind to equo becasue it's less obvious how to use it, so noobs won't be too tempted to just "force" it, but it's less safe in that it allows reverse depends to still be installed, so both options would be good. One far from redeeming(can be don other ways) good thing about entropy abusing the world file by placing every single installed package in it, is that at least equo would still do it's best to install absolutely everything else... including packages that are only needed for the "provided" package. Then the re-emerges could deviate from entropy as minimially as possible to meet it's depends at least if one is careful about the emerge options.

Am I missing an option somewhere?
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby albfneto » Wed Apr 22, 2009 16:43

Mix the installers is no so simple.
you can run equo update, then equo install equo, then emerge --sync, emerge portage portato and:

Code: Select all
equo database gentoosync

for syncronize Entropy and Portage.

equo world command, leeds to complete update system, is similar to the several options of emerge world...
It not ignores packages....
for mix the installers, it is sometimes necessary to "control" the installed, available versions, of a particular package... if you installed a newest version of a package example with emerge package command,,,, if you use further equo update and equo world,this very new package, may be downgraded, if is not masked....,
and even portage may be dowgraded...!
therefore,the more easy manner to mix installers, is to control an particular version,example:
emerge -s amsn && equo search amsn , and installing the newest version.
for world updates, if you used the other emerge world options, except emerge -e world, you cannot more use equo world....
certain other commands, cannot are good in sabayon.
deeply emerge world options, deepclean, clean options, clean databases, also cannot be used....
not use also emerge entropy, or equo,or spritz but use: equo install equo, entropy or spritz,
in other words, if you plain to mix installers, use equo for install equo commands or features.... and not portage.
the more esay manner to mix installers, example if you used equo world, for example, portato was dowgraded to 11 version, if entropy have only the 11 version... therefore use emerge portage portato, only for restore the last portato version...!
one easy manner is to open spritz and portato, and check the desired version, and then use the package manager that have the newer desired version....
one manner for fully updating the system is to using deepclean an other deeply emerge world options, but with the same dangers than in Gentoo, and remember that Sabayon have much more packages installed that a regular gentoo inslallation.... you may have hundreds of broken, blocked, collisions and/or orphaned dependencies, this is caused by Portage itself or by mixing installers, not by Entropy regular use.
i have four installations of Sabayon. In one i use only entropy, in other only portage,and in the other two, the installers are mixed for testing purposes, in these, i manually control the versions with emerge and equo commands, spritz and portato GUIs...i use equo for large packages, as GNOME, KDE, OpenOffice etc... but I use portage for system features as GCC, autoconf, automake, glib, autounmask, cmake etc... frequently i use equo world, and after restore the recent versions of particular packages, overley experimental packages... these can be restored after equo world, even without masking them, manually...., because exists the possibilty that they can be outdated by the equo world command....
in all cases of mixed installers, in Sabayon, deeply emerge world options can be avoided, since thay may caused hundreds os broken packages...
Remenber also.... overlays and particular ebuilds, can be used by portage in sabayon, and also, for 64 bits, using equo, the Zenana unofficial repo contains pratically the same packages of the newest portage tree..., the difference is few days...
I you, ( extreme optimization for testing, because this is not easy) can convert you entire system (Sabayon) in an Gentoo type syetem... install, update with equo, equo world, therefore make emerge --sync, emerge portage, emerge world, change the flags adequatelly for your native computer architeture and make an entire emerge system command, but you cannot NO more using entropy for update it...!, use only emerge...
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby dagurasu » Thu Apr 23, 2009 19:05

Thanks... I've been using gentoo for years (and slackware almost since it was invented). As I said, I am very aware of porblems that can arise when mixing installers. I'm ware of why I can't do the things you tell me I can't do and I'm also very aware of some clever ways in which doing some of them anyway can be quite beneficial (especially --depclean), and if done right won't break anything. I am not interested in emerge all or most or even alot of my system. I've dnoe enough of that.

The installer CAN ignore packages. Gentoo has several ways top do it. Equo can too. Of course problems can arise that's for me to worry about. I know what I'm doing. I would never attempt to do an emerge world and still expect equo not to totally rearrange things or worse.

The simplest most obvious way to "ignore" a package is to install only things for which all dependencies are satisfied and just skip isntallation of things that cannot be satisfied. (Emerge can do this) At least equo world would do most of the work and I could take care of the rest. Usually the packages I'm talking about are VERY top level packages and so have very little impact on the dedpendancy tree. Furthermore usually gentoo can manage to install those packages using existing sub-dependancies... (emerge with --nodeps and see if it can make it work.. otherwise it gets trickier). All I want is for equo world to still run.

Speaking of overlays... look, I have several packages from overlays that simply aren't in equo. Equo ignores them just fine. There is no reason whatsoever that equo cannot simply pretend that it doesn't know anything about another package in exactly the same way. Anything that has it as a depend then simply doesn't get updated.

I'm aware that I can just reinstall the gentoo stuff again later.. however.. it will reinstall new versions and I don't always want that. These are the programs I do my work with. I stay pretty aware of when upgrades are required based on dependancies, but it's rare, and otherwise I don't upgrade more often than I need to becasue that usually breaks something. I know I can make my own overlays to keep for later... what a pain. equo could also just:

***Leave the darn package alone and skip ANYTHING related to it that can't be satisfied... or even anything that can, that won't bother me either.***


I haven't played with just removing packages from my world file(emerge with -1). Maybe for truly top level packages... that would be enough to make equo move on! I suspect the gentoosync will it add back to world anyway though. Entropy likes to put EVERYTHING in world... really annoying.
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby Thev00d00 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 13:57

The latest equo/entropy packages in portage should be a little bit more friendly to mixing portage and entropy.

The 0.8x series of equo/entropy packages are not yet in the entropy repository as we are trying to maintain some stability in the repositories during our current release cycle. But they can be built from the Sabayon overlay.

If you enable ignore-spm-downgrades in /etc/entropy/client.conf on the latest versions of equo, equo should leave higher revisions alone.

Code: Select all
ignore-spm-downgrades|enable

However, you should still expect problems from time-to-time if you mix entropy and portage too much.
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby albfneto » Fri Apr 24, 2009 14:08

in fact, i have in mind that Entropy not contain much packages of the gentoo overlays, except of the Sabayon's overlay and sabayon SVN... Therefore, Portage in Sabayon, still works with layman and gentoo overlays.
for an example ,i have one installation of sabayon, in wich E17 was installed from the enlightenment overlay.
also, it have another possibility, i use gentoo also, and somey years ago, i made this test:
if you use an old sabayon, 3.4F (it not have Entropy) only Portage.... you install it.... installed, you download the kernel of gentoo, compile it, install, change the kernel from sabayon to gentoo with eselect, then changing the sabayon artwork by gentoo artwork, change the KDE of the sabayon, remove the overlay sabayon, substituting by overlays of gentoo, changind KDE by XFCE, manage flags, recompileetc... as in gentoo etc... etc... You may "transform" Sabayon in Gentoo...!
Because, even now, an exception for Entropy (wich i see in the net that is installable in gentoo!) and for Paludis, that is not entropy compatible, sabayon is an gentoo, but an Gentoo with many many packages, because of this the emerge world may leeds to problems in Sabayon.
Also, i tested more than 40 distros, including Debian, Arch ans Slackware,
Now, i greatly prefer 3: Sabayon, Gentoo and Mandriva Free. I begin some tests with the Daniel's Robbins Funtoo, an modification of the gentoo, basically is a GIT oriented Gentoo.
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby albfneto » Fri Apr 24, 2009 14:12

The v00d00, in one of my installations of sabayon, i'm testing the new Entropy. 0.8 series, i taken it from the Sabayonś Overlay.
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Re: how to make equo world ignore packages?

Postby dagurasu » Sat Apr 25, 2009 20:30

Thanks Thev00d00

I'll try it out (sooner or later anyway). An ability to prevent downgrades is a minimum, but some fomr of more general ignore options would still be nice for the adavanced users who are willing and able to deal with the mixing issues.
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