Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

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Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby tekwyzrd » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:10

When I first started using Sabayon one of the things I found interesting was Beryl and Emerald. The Beryl settings manager was reasonably well organized and it was easy to find and modify desired settings. Then came the re-merge of Beryl into compiz, resulting in compiz-fusion. As a result of gnome-centric design we are now forced to search through a poorly thought out settings manager, forced to contend with a constant series of icon and back button clicks to navigate. I've reached a point of frustration with the settings manager and have given up on compiz-fusion.

Even worse is the planned implementation of a similar settings manager in KDE4. System Settings, the planned replacement for kcontrol, is based on the System Settings app in Kubuntu. Once again a project bows to Ubuntu, abandoning a well planned, functional design in favor of one that is little more than a gnome clone.

http://www.kde-forum.org/thread.php?threadid=17965

Don't let Ubuntu have the final say. Vote for the bug in the KDE Bugzilla

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153556
Former Sabayon user (2005 - 2013) and current Arch user.
I liked Sabayon until it switched to Rigo and becoming the gentoo equivalent of Ubuntu. Extreme browsing? Extreme gaming? Extreme work? Extreme development? Like, totally gnarly, dude!
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby wolfden » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:56

Beryl and CF are both nasty for settings manager. People are always coming into IRC, where do I find this and that

Yes the suse kicker is horrible, why the hell do people want to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll just to get to an application??

KDE4 hasn't looked good from the first previews and it hasn't improved

To vote you have to have an account :?
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby Stupot » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:40

I've done a bit of reading about the KDE4 changes and most changes were made because old code was unmanageable and unfixable. Implementing new features in that old code often introduced tons of unseen bugs, so they decided to redo a lot of it. While KDE4 might not even be as fully feature-packed as kde 3.5.x, it has room to improve in so many ways that 3.5 couldn't.

As for the suse kicker, I always use the search function because as any console person will tell you, typing is faster than clicking.

As for the Systems Menu, it's not the end of the world. It's not like you should really be bothered by it, you'll just have to adjust. From the one measely screenshot, you can't tell if it has any sort of lost functionality and limit your abilities like ubuntu tends to do. Having a simple starting interface is a good thing. Limiting your users like Ubuntu does is bad in my opinion. There is no solid evidence that KDE4 is doing that yet.
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby wolfden » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:06

Stupot wrote:I've done a bit of reading about the KDE4 changes and most changes were made because old code was unmanageable and unfixable. Implementing new features in that old code often introduced tons of unseen bugs, so they decided to redo a lot of it. While KDE4 might not even be as fully feature-packed as kde 3.5.x, it has room to improve in so many ways that 3.5 couldn't.


Yes I read that too and they have even discontinued some things, hence the new kcontrol. I've also read that distros will wait to KDE 4.0.1 to come out before switching. I guess we will have to wait and see.
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby Stupot » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:41

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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby tekwyzrd » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:01

Read the kde forum. Read reviews. According to articles and threads I've read the devs stated that the change to a gnome clone control panel is due to an unmaintained kcontrol, users with no preference for one or the other, and a perceived need for overall simplification. To cater to the demands of users too lazy to try and learn and the ubuntu community they're eliminating functionality.

I anticipated the results of the re-merge of Beryl. I even commented in this forum about what I expected to happen when the Beryl developers started to cater to ubuntu. Primary concern there is gnome with KDE reduced to an afterthought. Now KDE's devs are following in the same footsteps (catering to the kubuntu community) and I'm concerned that once these simplifications are implemented and the less sophisticated users start using KDE there will be sufficient numbers and demand to prevent change. Once the simplifications are implemented there's no turning back.

Just look at the menu layout. I agree. The SuSE menu is an abomination. It's ridiculous to constantly use scroll bars to find what you're looking for. It's a poorly implemented, badly designed layout. Even so there have been enough people who like it that KDE has made it the standard. It's hoped that there will be an alternative available when the final 4.0 is released but there's no guarantees.

I switched from windows (xp pro and 2k) to SuSE in August of 2005 and about that time I started reading about work being done in preparation for the fall 2006 release of KDE4. What happened to KDE? Why was so much effort put into minor release versions? I've seen six releases in the last two years with little accomplished on v4.0. Sacrifice functionality to meet an arbitrary release date? With the delays we've seen to this point I'd rather see them delay the release again and get it right. A bad release lacking components current users are familiar with will alienate many users, myself included.

In anticipation of a major disappointment I'll start looking for something to replace KDE. I don't think I'll find anything but if the only viable choices are gnome or a dumbed down kde I'll probably switch back to windows and LDE(X).
Former Sabayon user (2005 - 2013) and current Arch user.
I liked Sabayon until it switched to Rigo and becoming the gentoo equivalent of Ubuntu. Extreme browsing? Extreme gaming? Extreme work? Extreme development? Like, totally gnarly, dude!
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby wolfden » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:23

I've used KDE for several years and this year I switched to gnome when they released 2.18 because I didn't like the direction KDE was heading. I didn't like gnome till 2.18 and I have been using gnome as my main desktop for 3/4 of the year. There is things it lacks, but I am happy with it. I see in the gentoo community a movement away from the two big desktops KDE and Gnome, they are going to the min. desktop environments. One can drop down to XFCE and still have the Compiz-Fusion. Of course this doesn't work for people that are new to linux and need a full desktop environment. I think if KDE don't watch out, more people will be exploring other desktop environments. I don't think reverting back to windows is the answer, Vista is worst looking yet.
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby tekwyzrd » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:42

I have parts here to cobble together another p3 computer and probably clock it to 933MHz. I've had good luck with 700MHz P3s @933MHz and I have 1GB of ram sitting here. That's a project for this weekend. I'll install XP Pro on it and start digging into LDE(X) again. It's been a while but I still have a copy of my files here somewhere. It might take a few days to familiarize myself again and become accustomed to editing the rc files and scripts but with winter here there's plenty of time. I definitely won't do vista.

I don't know why but for me gnome is counterintuitive. I just can't get used to it. It's like going back to win95 after running xp.
Former Sabayon user (2005 - 2013) and current Arch user.
I liked Sabayon until it switched to Rigo and becoming the gentoo equivalent of Ubuntu. Extreme browsing? Extreme gaming? Extreme work? Extreme development? Like, totally gnarly, dude!
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Re: Beryl vs compiz-fusion, kde vs ubuntu

Postby Stupot » Fri Dec 07, 2007 21:07

While I realize that KDE4.1 will be much better than KDE4.0, KDE4.0 is necessary to come out in order for people to make custom apps solely for KDE4. I will be making the switch and will use KDE4 as it grows and improves (which I forsee vast amounts of improvements).
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