Discussion About Upgrade Complaints

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Re: Discussion About Upgrade Complaints

Postby raman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:55

Some days ago Mint brokes some things, like web browsers, etc. The problem with new packages was noted very fast, but problems for 1-2 hours was similar like in Sabayon.

The same problems was in gentoo, if somebody uses gentoo test branch.
Sabayon developers takes new packages from gentoo branch what I see, so the problems was on packages side, like on developers side.

I'm using weekly-sabayon repo, and I didn't have any problems what you have, my browsers working correcly, video programs too.

I understand that you a little frustrated, but for now, it's how linux world is working. There is no possible to test all packages, we have only a few Sab developers. They need help, big team, some ppl for testing.

I have idea for Sab DEV team. Maybe it's time to look new ppl to help you? Some new developers, but what it's more important, ask ppl for help you testing new packages. I think a lot ppl help you by installing for you new packages before you add them to official repo.

You are busy ppl, don't allow yourselfs to overworked.
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Re: Discussion About Upgrade Complaints

Postby cmost » Thu Nov 24, 2011 16:36

My two cents, for what it's worth. I just installed 606 package updates. I've been running the very same system (started with Sabayon 5.o) for over two years now and on three different motherboards (even different video cards.) I simply cloned the original hard disk containing my Sabayon installation to each new system. I've been using Limbo. I won't lie and say I haven't had the occasional head-scratching problem, but some basic research with Google and a thorough search of the forum has always resulted in a solution. For the most part, Sabayon is the ONLY DISTRO that i've been able to continuously upgrade without re-installing at least once a year. That's saying a lot since I was formerly a Debian (albeit Testing) user; even Debian would end up getting borked beyond my ability to repair it. That has never happened with Sabayon. I think that's simply an amazing track record!! I agree with the developers in that users need to use more common sense when handling their own systems. Here are some thoughts to consider:

--If you're worried about getting cut, then don't live on the bleeding edge. Use the stable repo only and even then, don't install updates without checking the forums first to ensure all is well.
--When installing updates, pay attention to what's being updated and know how to check your logs to see what's causing problems when things go wrong.
--If it ain't broke, don't fix it - don't install updates for the sake of updating. Wait a few days and make sure others aren't having problems before you take the plunge.
--When considering hardware purchases, check to see how well Linux supports the hardware you plan to buy. If your hardware isn't well supported, don't blame Sabayon or Linux; blame the hardware vendor for not supplying Linux software and drivers.
--Don't mix the package managers! If you start with entropy/equo, don't sporadically start using emerge! Similarly, don't compile packages from source unless you know what you're doing. If there's a package you want, make a package request.
--If you're apparently the only one with a problem after upgrading, then YOU have screwed up somewhere. Sorry. Don't jump on the forums and start blaming the developers or start ranting and raving about how much Sabayon sucks.
--Sabayon is not Windows
--Sabayon is not Ubuntu (thank God!)
--If you want to use Linux, then understand that you're making a commitment to learn something about how your computer works! If you can't be bothered or aren't interested, then use Windows or Mac.
--Sometimes the command line is easier than a GUI. Likewise, sometimes it's faster and easier to edit a config file.
--Sabayon is the product of many, many, MANY hours of hard work by UNPAID developers! Remember these wise words: you get what you pay for! You are not entitled to a warranty or ensured that YOUR specific hardware is supported.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING SABAYON USERS AND DEVELOPERS!!!! Thank you for Sabayon! :D
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Re: Discussion About Upgrade Complaints

Postby lxnay » Fri Nov 25, 2011 22:09

We're working hard to constantly improve our QA toolchain.
Unfortunately, sometimes something slips in. But that's quite common among Linux distros.
The GCC profile setup issue was caused by a corner case scenario we were not able to simulate in time, but once it got reported, the fix was out within minutes!
Instead, regarding XBMC and perhaps other regressions (midori), sorry to say that's complete upstream fault (xbmc not liking --as-needed, webkit-gtk changed API without SONAME ABI bump...). 70% of the time is about upstream regressions.

If you really want to help out in case of critical issues, just take time to collect as much info as possible (perhaps using cookbug) and open a bug report on our Bugzilla. Making proper bugs helps us like nothing else.
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Re: Discussion About Upgrade Complaints

Postby Richlion » Sat Nov 26, 2011 17:48

All remarks noted :wink:

cmost wrote:--If you're worried about getting cut, then don't live on the bleeding edge. Use the stable repo only and even then, don't install updates without checking the forums first to ensure all is well.


Sorry, don't know what's the difference between "bleeding edge" and "stable repo", I thought things like Sulfur would simplify things. Does Equo/Sulfur not use "stable repo"?

--When installing updates, pay attention to what's being updated and know how to check your logs to see what's causing problems when things go wrong.


I agree and do check the forums who has problems, but check for yourself, how many people report problem X is happening after upgrade on DD/MM/YY ?

Suggestion - what if we reported on our Forum a daily message like "All updates dated 26/11/2011 are ok, programs checked - web browser, network/wireless, Multimedia, DVD burning, etc. checked" ?

--If it ain't broke, don't fix it - don't install updates for the sake of updating. Wait a few days and make sure others aren't having problems before you take the plunge.


I do wait a couple of days, but when all web-browsers are down, that is when I try an run all updates that come in. And I don't use the console because I can make things worse. I wait for someone to post some instructions on the Forum.

--When considering hardware purchases, check to see how well Linux supports the hardware you plan to buy. If your hardware isn't well supported, don't blame Sabayon or Linux; blame the hardware vendor for not supplying Linux software and drivers.

I don't know how many people reported problems related to hardware, as far as the recent problems they seem to have been GCC related.

--Don't mix the package managers! If you start with entropy/equo, don't sporadically start using emerge! Similarly, don't compile packages from source unless you know what you're doing. If there's a package you want, make a package request.


Some people suggest not using Sulfur that uses entropy/equo. Can something go wrong because of Sulfur?
Ever since Sulfur I hardly ever use Portage, unless Sabayon team says I can do to fix the problem.

--If you're apparently the only one with a problem after upgrading, then YOU have screwed up somewhere. Sorry.

I don't install anything manually nor I use Portage not do I download sources and compile by myself, I rely on Sulfur and Equo. I can't imagine how I can screw up something with those, that is why I use it.

Don't jump on the forums and start blaming the developers or start ranting and raving about how much Sabayon sucks.

I hope I was not the one seen saying "Linux sucks". I would never say that.

--Sabayon is not Windows

Thank God, and that is why I chose Sabayon and because it's free I understand that a glitch can slip through once in a while and developers have to have a platform and big audience to test things.

-If you want to use Linux, then understand that you're making a commitment to learn something about how your computer works! If you can't be bothered or aren't interested, then use Windows or Mac.


I think the majority of us understand the concept of Linux and appreciate what developers have for us to offer. A very BIG THANK YOU for that.

you're making a commitment to learn something

That goes BOTH ways, we learn something from you and we offer you the biggest testing community you can have, please appreciate if we try to provide some input and allow ourselves to go into hurdles to test your new ideas.

If we complain it is because we would like to inform that somewhere changes/update have gone too far without testing.

You also have massive testing community for free other companies need a huge budget for in order to test their products.

--Sometimes the command line is easier than a GUI. Likewise, sometimes it's faster and easier to edit a config file.

That defies using Sulfur and Equo as an unstable product or a not very efficient one.

--Sabayon is the product of many, many, MANY hours of hard work by UNPAID developers! Remember these wise words: you get what you pay for! You are not entitled to a warranty or ensured that YOUR specific hardware is supported.

Understood. Thank you all for giving us Sabayon on Gentoo. I did donate to the Linux community a couple of times. I wish there were some more coffee mugs and T-Shirts with the SL logo so I could buy some.

Best regards to All
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