Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby Sisko43 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 22:53

BlackNoxis wrote:Some advices for you Sisko43 :

1) Firstly understand the individualist theory : I, as a human, must solve my own problems in any ways possible and must learn everything that is at hand to solve them in the right, objective (straight to the point) and justfully way possible. What you've wrote up there was a total subjective ordering of ideas and problems, I didn't see no details of WHAT could POSSIBLY went wrong with your updates.

2) Sabayon includes Gentoo-OS. Starting with this basis and judging by the individualist theory (AGAIN), your interest for knowledge is at the lowest grade possible. Then I ask again : how could you possibly have no problems with Gentoo-OS and could have problems with Sabayon when you already have a Gentoo-OS in your Sabayon system ?

3) Judging by 1) and 2) basis, I will put again another question : those packages you had problem with, they work on Gentoo ? If yes, why didn't you emerge them to see if they work (if you say you're on and know Gentoo) ? The logical fact says that if they work on Gentoo, they should work on Gentoo binaries, and guess where all Gentoo binaries go ? Right, Sabayon.

As a conclusion, I cannot imagine you using Gentoo, you don't seem to know a lot of docs about Gentoo, if you knew some Gentoo, then Sabayon broken packages would be just a "what's with this ant ?" question. If you were a true Sabayon user, then you would've debugged them, see what could possibly go wrong, and feedback a.s.a.p. to Fabio or the devs. And as Raman said, those are not Sabayon-made packages, guilt is not Sabayon's. I resume myself to darthlukan 's theory about this. The things I say here, I hope you won't take them personally, it's just user-to-user reply, but I really hope you will learn more in the future about Linux system, you don't seem to shine, and definitely Sabayon nor Gentoo don't seem to be for you.

Good luck and sincerely thoughts, Steven


Don't be afraid, I won't take it personally, but your text is a little bit insulting. Don't know in what way you're involved in Sabayon, but you wrote your text as if I stepped on your toes.

Furthermore you should have left your "Advices" to a better clairvoyant maybe Nostradamus. I wrote my first post in this thread 100% influenced by frustration. To read all this what you have written out of it, is a little bit adventurous.

1. As I wrote my first post everything was fine again with my Sabayon-Installation. Not a single word with "Help". I posted in the General Discussion. I started this thread NOT, because of the mentioned issues. But because of the culmination of issues after bigger updates via equo/sulfur over the past year. That's a fact. Search a little bit in the Sabayon-Forum and you will see it. that's the reponsibility of Sabayon-dev and not Upstream. Sabayon is Sabayon. And not Gentoo.

2. You wrote:
Code: Select all
If you were a true Sabayon user, then you would've debugged them, see what could possibly go wrong, and feedback a.s.a.p. to Fabio or the devs.


I posted several times in the bugzilla. Two examples:
- Buggy Lightscribe-packages.
contacted several times in this case. To this day lightscribe don't work in sabayon. The lightscribe overlay from Gentoo works just fine.
- No working flash in Opera.
Contacted Bugzilla. Simple answer: "Works here on my machine. You're talking nonsense"
A few month later I found this in the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25453&p=141575&hilit=opera#p141575

Make your own conclusions...

3. Sabayon is a precompiled binary Linux, Gentoo NOT . So how can you possibly predict what I have installed on my Gentoo Machine to make these very strange connection. On my Gentoo-system is nothing installed that is still in the Testing-Phase or Masked....

4. I would say "Everybody has still to learn in life" And therefore also Linux. But nonetheless as I wrote:
I use Linux permanently since 1997 with a great variety of Distributions. Sabayon was on my machine since version 4.0.
Other activities from me in the Knowledge-Case( a few examples):
https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?titl ... elerra_4.3

RPM-Packaging Mandriva:
http://www.mandrivauser.de/forum/viewto ... 55&t=29569

http://www.mandrivauser.de/forum/viewto ... 55&t=29513

http://www.mandrivauser.de/forum/viewto ... 55&t=29560
I could continue.

So I refuse to tolerate sentence from you like:
Starting with this basis and judging by the individualist theory (AGAIN), your interest for knowledge is at the lowest grade possible.

but I really hope you will learn more in the future about Linux system, you don't seem to shine, and definitely Sabayon nor Gentoo don't seem to be for you.


Good luck my omniscient Steven :wink:

@raman

Oh, dear! :roll:

@lxnay
Your quote:

Most of the time it's just the user not READING equo/sulfur output at all, we ain't Windows.


Poor excuse!

and:
genfool,
stop writing FUD, you really have no clue at all.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Anyway I'm out of Sabayon rolling now with Arch...
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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby BlackNoxis » Wed Nov 23, 2011 23:27

I applaud your courage and excuse my activist-like of replies, but I never had problems in Sabayon (only the ones I myself created, especially when I recompiled the kernel with my configs). So yeah, as my conclusion, you know Entropy PM, and maybe your impressions changed by the way Fabio responded to genfool, but believe me, the things you see are not always as you think they are, Fabio probably did some excuses in private to genfool, or not, not our business anyway. You should not be ... "afraid" or "changed" of these kinds of reactions from the devs or Fabio, they come and go, if you help them, they help you and all is forgotten.

But try to understand that there are some of us that know too well how to handle their own packages (even though there are other things we don't know, it compensates) ... and I cannot possibly understand what could've went wrong with yours, that's why I was so enraged by your post. My excuses, probably you have your own reasons of leaving this community or this distro, but take one last advice from me ... perseverence, 'no matter how dire the situation is, never forsake it'.

I do not care who on this distro would ever criticize me for what I am, for what I say, I know I must persevere and feedback as much as I can, and help the thing for which I believe in, and I believe in Fabio's distro. For now I may not be of good help, I do not have two PCs to really test things around on limbo, but I help people around, and I talk in people to just join the community and do what we must.

I won't be "changed" even if Fabio would insult me without a reason (he doesn't do that), I will still persevere :)
Good luck with Arch !
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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby micia » Thu Nov 24, 2011 0:50

Well, this discussion is going "off topic" :mrgreen:
I don't think this topic should focus on frustration, loyality to the distro, or such things.
I think it is all a matter of making a productive and non flame topic :)
Having opinions and critics for Sabayon should not be a crime, until we talk in a constructive way about them.

Sisko43, you clearly are stating opinions or experiences about your Sabayon daily use that could be useful to Sabayon, let's keep it productive and not offensive and we could actually improve the situation and the distro itself.
I think that the problem is not the organization, since Sabayon is quite well organized despite its small team, in my opinion bugs are to be expected in a bleeding edge distro. You can't have a fully updated distro with an enormous amount of packages and not expect a single bug.
You could test each package for an entire month and still run into bugs, because you can't exhaust all possible configurations out there, for example, I am running a fully updated Sabayon with limbo enabled, no issues this far, the situation even improved with latest updates :lol:
Not to mention that actually Sabayon could run into upstream bugs that really aren't its fault (lightscribe overlay isn't the portage tree, for example, and Opera flash issues were due to Nvidia drivers as far as I know, the nvidia-drivers from portage were simply more updated and, thus, without the bug).
In my opinion what would really help is a way to guarantee more stability, for example system snapshots as suggested here:
https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=23540
or other methods that you are welcome to suggest :)
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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby genfool » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:00

lxnay wrote
Sisko43,
why are you blaming us for upstream bugs?
XBMC was broken due to an old, yet unresolved upstream bug (now fixed again in our repos)
Firefox, LibreOffice, Chromium are all working good for everybody here (maybe your gcc profile didn't get updated? Did you run ALL the updates as of today? It doesn't seem so).

Most of the time it's just the user not READING equo/sulfur output at all, we ain't Windows.

genfool,
stop writing FUD, you really have no clue at all.


lxnay you are correct, I have no clue.
I thought that sabayon was a stable bleeding edge installable gentoo based off of portage 2.2.
I really do not see it as stable.
Am posting from pure gentoo 2.2.0_alpha77
And xbmc works perfect, fully updated today, nothing masked .... just works... *cough* except libsrvg non issue.
xbmc has not worked with pulseaudio on my sabayon installs for over a month, works perfect on gentoo 2.2, never skipped a beat. Is the way you are converting to binary is my first guess, whole file system structure is different between gentoo xbmc and sabayon xbmc. You are doing it wrong. Trying to emerge a ebuild should not be an option.
We all know NetworkManager has more options then wicd, nm is broke .... you let users install a broken nm instead of giving them something that works ..... they can install nm if they want ... your call.
I do not agree with the weekly repos being updated weekly, why not bi-weekly for added stability?
Too often I have seen limbo updates pushed to main and then added to weekly with out being tested..
I do not know where these errors are coming from, as I say gentoo 2.2 works fine here, is only sabayon converting to binary that these issues come up.

You call it what you want lxnay, I applaud you for getting to this point .... why your #2 man complaining that there is no communication?

lxnay you can call my post fud, I do not know the direction you are headed to, I somehow do not like the current state of sabayon and blame it on you.
Am too old to be your father, In a grandfatherly way I tell you to wake up, or slow down ... a broken os is no good to anyone.
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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby DeepDayze » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:55

My 2 cents on this subject:

I'm an Aptosid (debian sid based distro) user and they have a section on their forum that's for warnings that some update will break things.I'd suggest something like that here too so that can help users in advance of updates that run the risk of breaking their Sabayon installations. Of course bugs in updated packages should be reported so maintainers can provide a fix/workaround until the offending package(s) are fixed. Also are there ways to downgrade a package to the last working one in the event an update breaks a package?

I have installed sabayon on a spare drive to play with and I had some issues but was able to resolve them..as the OP has noted, some people don't always have the time to track down problems so some assistance from others and from developers would be a great thing when problems are reported.

Not knocking this distro but just pointing things out.
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Re: Another Sabayon upgrade mess...

Postby lxnay » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:08

genfool wrote:You call it what you want lxnay, I applaud you for getting to this point .... why your #2 man complaining that there is no communication?

Things have to be discussed in the open, through mailing lists, forums and other developers' channel.
People refusing to do so are not good for the project health. People refusing to cooperate with other developers but just wanting to concentrate their power around them by not letting other people to get involved are not good either.
Your arrogance here demonstrates that you have no fucking clue about WHO actually gets the shit fixed and I kindly ask you to stop this attitude NOW.

Stop the drama queen parody for just 3 bugs that got already fixed in no time since when they got reported PROPERLY in our Bugzilla.

Sisko43 doesn't want to listen, I already told him on Bugzilla (IIRC) that Lightscribe apps are BROKEN upstream and we're not going to support them anymore. We can't turn crap into gold.
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