Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Provia » Mon Jan 28, 2013 20:58

dunsurfin wrote:SL is a distro that supports virtually all Linux desktop environments, not just KDE or Gnome, and has an enormous software repository so it is perhaps really important that final testing is by users and not developers. Developers can't be expected to keep the large range of hardware and other software that users will have. Obviously you feel strongly about this issue but, so far, the discussion seems to suggest that others feel differently. This is no bad thing - without disagreement we would still be swinging through the trees - but I don't think you have made your case. (And I don't mean that aggressively :wink: )


No sorry dunsurfin the 'aggresive' is referred to Stupot
Anyway you misunderstood two things
-I don't wont a kde only sabayon :D i was only specifiyng the particular case of chakra.
-When i say "let developers test the software before include it in SL" i'm reffering to (in this case) amarok developers. In this way we have less work for our developers. Use already tested software will allow to save time. This is what beta is meant to be:not everybody is a tester, there are normal users too. Normal users maybe don't want to be testers but just users. Every software is meant to be used and not just tested. Every package has it's own(out of SL) testers so why don't use their work instead of doing tests in stable SL repos. That's my idea
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Stupot » Mon Jan 28, 2013 21:32

Provia wrote:Please don't be so aggressive.


I'm sorry I came off as aggressive. Rest assured, I did not mean to.

However, Sabayon Linux has always been looking to provide cutting-edge packages as soon as they are deemed stable. You are looking for something besides that. Sabayon repositories could support such a thing, but it will only be done in addition to the way packages are currently pushed out, not instead of the way they are currently pushed out. (I say that with confidence due to how long I have been a part of the Sabayon community. This is certainly not the first time that different approaches to package maintanence has come up.) And that is certainly acheivable if someone wants to take up responsibility and make it happen. As it is though, there doesn't appear to be enough people who desire that to make it anything other than a community supported effort (aka, no official developer maintenance).

I certainly understand your point and it is definitely a valid viewpoint, but it goes somewhat against what the Sabayon project is all about.

"In Sabayon everything should just work. We offer a bleeding edge operating system that is both stable and reliable."

Beta packages are bleeding edge and what Sabayon will always be looking to provide. If we can manage to provide an even more stable repository branch along side the bleeding edge packages, that could be awesome. The best way for that to happen is for somebody to take charge of the idea and run with it.

Once again, I apologize if I am coming off as agressive. I simply always strive to provide thorough explanations for why I say what I do. Your idea is completely understood and completely valid, but I do not see it replacing the current package release process, rather possibly going along side it.
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby dunsurfin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 21:39

Provia wrote:Anyway you misunderstood two things
-I don't wont a kde only sabayon :D i was only specifiyng the particular case of chakra.
-When i say "let developers test the software before include it in SL" i'm reffering to (in this case) amarok developers. In this way we have less work for our developers. Use already tested software will allow to save time. This is what beta is meant to be:not everybody is a tester, there are normal users too. Normal users maybe don't want to be testers but just users. Every software is meant to be used and not just tested. Every package has it's own(out of SL) testers so why don't use their work instead of doing tests in stable SL repos. That's my idea


I didn't actually misunderstand. One of the problems of language (unfortunately I don't speak Italian so we have to use English). :)

What I was trying to say was that because SL has such a wide range of software and DE/CLI options it is not always a good idea to rely on testers outside of SL and the SL testing is done before the package goes to the weekly repository.
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Provia » Mon Jan 28, 2013 21:52

Ok thanks Stupot for your explanation. I respect your position as i'm not experienced as you in this project. Obviously i hope that maybe things in the future will change. Anyway i'm feeling good using SL as it is now. And i will continue to support it for what i can.
Last edited by Provia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Provia » Mon Jan 28, 2013 22:02

dunsurfin wrote:
I didn't actually misunderstand. One of the problems of language (unfortunately I don't speak Italian so we have to use English). :)

What I was trying to say was that because SL has such a wide range of software and DE/CLI options it is not always a good idea to rely on testers outside of SL and the SL testing is done before the package goes to the weekly repository.


This is the international forum so i must write in english :D i'm sorry for my bad language skills :(

Ok, so is better to focus on limbo-testing :D i hope to do somenthing in the future
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby dunsurfin » Mon Jan 28, 2013 22:08

Provia wrote:This is the international forum so i must write in english :D i'm sorry for my bad language skills :(


Please don't apologise. Your English is very good - my Italian is limited to phrases like "Che gelida manina" :)
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby becho2150 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 13:23

svantoviit wrote:
Sabayon Wiki wrote:In particular, Sabayon is based on Gentoo's testing branch. Gentoo's testing branch is about on par with Debian's Sid (unstable branch) releases. Though based on the bleeding edge, you will find Sabayon is quite stable and perhaps more cutting edge.

Not that hard to understand. If you are looking for something "stable", you are in the wrong place. But there are plenty other distros out there.

Provia wrote:…maybe there are not enought testers

Feel free to become one ;)

so if like sabayon only choice i have is to hope that after any update all still work or i can spend few years to learn gentoo so i can fix problems.with that attitude im sure sabayon users will raise in future
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Stupot » Tue Jan 29, 2013 16:28

If any problems arise from a simple upgrade gone wrong, Sabayon tends to have good community support. You don't have to be a gentoo expert, you just have to be willing to help the community help you.

There have been a number of issues that have come up over the years of incorrect things showing up after an upgrade. Just recently there was an issue with jpegs not showing up in chrome or firefox. The issue was quickly reported to the forums and a fix was quickly found and posted for all to see. No expertise needed.

Sabayon does strive to be stable, but it also strives to be bleeding edge. These things are somewhat at odds with each other, so sometimes a slip up will make it through the cracks. It doesn't happen very often and it tends to be relatively minor when it does.
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby wolfden » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:30

Just a quick note - you can simply mask a package with the package manager so it doesn't upgrade to the latest version.

I didn't see that option mentioned.

Provia - what you are asking can't be done without having another entropy full of packages as testing and stable are two completely different things. This would require more servers/space/developing and isos.

We run out of the testing branch of gentoo. We don't have testing vs. stable repo. We just try to catch breakages from passing on from one repo to another. The majority of computer users have the mentality of latest is greatest and will go to great lengths to break their computer system for an update that may not even benefit them. I see this time after time. If users want to get together and build an entropy2 out of gentoo stable branch, more power to em, but than get ready for those complaining the packages are old.

So if you see a package upgrade you don't want, just mask it. This won't work in all cases due to dependencies.
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Re: Amarok Beta in sabayon-weekly

Postby Provia » Wed Feb 06, 2013 14:30

Hi wolfden
what i'm trying to say is that: if we notice a problem in a limbo package we stop it before entering in our stable entropy repos right?
Well, why just do not the same with beta packages? stop only this package and wait that gentoo testing get the last stable version. I'm not saying to compile all the gentoo stable, just to stop these packages for a while(like we do for bugged ones).
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