WTF is happening in Gentoo?

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voxiac
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WTF is happening in Gentoo?

Post by voxiac » Fri Mar 09, 2007 20:31

Is it just me or some of you also follow what is happening in Gentoo now?
Those who don't know can read some recent posts by one of the Gentoo devs about this whole thing. Starting with this one.
There's more in the "gentoo-dev" mailing list. Among that I've read is the sad fact of Daniel Robbins - the founder of Gentoo resigning as a dev (once again) shortly after actually he became one.
It seems like Gentoo is falling apart. If you know better please prove me wrong!

Jesterhead
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Post by Jesterhead » Fri Mar 09, 2007 21:37

The same shit which happens for every project sooner or later ;)

As long as no "strong" leader is in a project, some people will seek power, and try to make it "their" project...

Maybe its good for gentoo ("clean-up"), maybe its bad.

Its very funny that most of the ppl are 20+ years old...
And behave like small kids...

wolfden
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Post by wolfden » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:22

nothing new for Gentoo - been like that for a long time.

4walters
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Post by 4walters » Sun Mar 11, 2007 20:19

The weekly newsletter said drobbins left the project and also joined the AMD64 team???

voxiac
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Post by voxiac » Sun Mar 11, 2007 22:28

4walters wrote:The weekly newsletter said drobbins left the project and also joined the AMD64 team???
I guess it's the other way around: he joined AMD64 team and then left the project.

Jesterhead
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Post by Jesterhead » Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:27

The weekly newsletter is more or less automatically generated, he joined again as dev 2 weeks ago, and left last week again.

stedevil
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Re: WTF is happening in Gentoo?

Post by stedevil » Wed Mar 14, 2007 20:31

voxiac wrote:Is it just me or some of you also follow what is happening in Gentoo now?
I didnt, but seing the names Ciaran and Daniel in combination with a fight I probably can figure out what the fight was about withpout checking, Drobbins little baby (Portage) vs the much needed upgrade by CM (Paludis).

ref:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0042.html
http://paludis.pioto.org/

The fact is that, Ciaran might come off as having a piss poor attitude (at the very least very hars), but what he does is really of high fundamental importance for Gentoo. Portage when it came was a greate tool and a big stride forward but Drobbins for YEARS made sure no real improvment was made to it and even today (2? years after he left) it's stagnant (likely because of crappy original hacklike coding). There is a huge ammount of really handy features available as various scripts that just hasnt been implemented in portage and probably never will (due to above code problem).

In short, I would assume Drobbins got offended by Ciarans very blunt manifesto of what is wrong with Portage and how to fix it and went on the attack. This, given Ciarans personality and people managment skills (ie lack off), turned into an exploision.

BTW this is NOT the first very high profile fight involving Drobbins and Portage vs people trying to change it. There was an even bigger scandal a few years back before Drobbins left Gentoo where a large early on contributor (both code and money) left Gentoo mainly because of Drobbins refusal to admit the problems with Portage and the need to improve it.

In any case, what I am REALLY worried about here is not the manner and attitude of some developers but that the much needed Portage -> Paludis movement is halted, because that fore sure is a sinvce longe time needed one...

voxiac
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Post by voxiac » Wed Mar 14, 2007 21:39

I guess you're right. A commenter called "tetromino" on
http://lwn.net/Articles/224082/
summarized the debate like this (I just couldn't resist quoting it ;)):
<drobbins> hey guys, can I get my account back?
<drobbins> I will be just a regular dev now
<drobbins> not absolute monarch like back in the day
<gentoo-dev> sure!
<drobbins> excellent
<drobbins> hmm, the old crown and scepter got all dusty
<gentoo-dev> ...
<ciaranm> blah blah blah troll troll troll PMS paludis PMS paludis
<drobbins> what is the meaning of this?
<drobbins> non-devs on my dev-only mailing list?
<ciaranm> yeah. so what are ya gonna do about it, punk?
<drobbins> your kind was not allowed here back in my day
<ciaranm> well, you are not the boss of me!
<gentoo-dev> uhm, ciaranm has been around here for a long time...
<gentoo-dev> and he does good work (when he's not being an asshole)...
<gentoo-dev> and the customs have changed since the revolution...
<drobbins> get off my mailing list, you filthy vagrant!
<ciaranm> stfu n00b
<drobbins> guards, seize this man!
<gentoo-dev> ...
<gentoo-dev> no.
<ciaranm> lol
<drobbins> fine!
* drobbins has quit (uppity ungrateful peasants)

stedevil
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Post by stedevil » Wed Mar 14, 2007 23:18

voxiac wrote:summarized the debate like this (I just couldn't resist quoting it ;)):
...
Hehe, that probably saved me a few hours of reading through a lot of stupid drivel. I read Seemants blog too now and it indeed is yet another Alpha-male fight. To be honnest, the second I saw Drobbins rejoining as a dev I saw this very fight coming. With Daniels previous record of protectionism towards his baby, Portage (frankly the very core of Gentoo) and Ciaran on the other side of the fence it was destined to produce big sparks. :roll:

I just hope something good does come out of this both in general dev vs dev relations as well as with Paludis.

2ny
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Post by 2ny » Wed Mar 14, 2007 23:34

Thanks for that quote! This made my day. We've seen this before - it takes two to Tango. I believe what is of the highest interest to this community, is to work for the preservation and development of the foundation that SL rests upon.

I'm not taking sides, and I think it is probably wiser for those that are not already committed to keep a reasonably low profile and support our own interests under some silence. I don't think G is about to die, but there does not seem to be any significant feelings of family attachment coming towards SL from the other side of the fence. This project is fueled by passion more than technophobia, let's hope it can keep developing in that spirit.


Tony. . .

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