SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

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Poettering's SystemD, GNOME and RedHat: your feelings about

Damn, it's not an evolution! Where the f*** has gone KISS philosophy?
6
55%
Damn conservatism... SystemD is the future!
2
18%
I'm happy of SystemD, but I feel like RedHat is forcing *us* to a landlocked direction
3
27%
 
Total votes : 11

SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Matte88 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 0:13

Certainly I am not a guru nor a technical, but I feel SystemD another piece of Linux going to a "Pulsef*** direction", with RedHat that is forcing the mainstream to follow her laws...
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Stupot » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:00

There is no need for this poll. Not many Sabayon users are knowledgeable enough to really have a say. Besides Fabio himself and maybe another dev or two, everybody here will have gotten their opinion by just listening to other people.

^ That's the option I would have voted for if it was there. :P
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Matte88 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 13:10

Stupot wrote:There is no need for this poll. Not many Sabayon users are knowledgeable enough to really have a say. Besides Fabio himself and maybe another dev or two, everybody here will have gotten their opinion by just listening to other people.

^ That's the option I would have voted for if it was there. :P
Just open this poll in OT section to see how people feel about direction of some Linux pieces are taking, without being related to only Sabayon world. So, anyone here that would tell his thought about the thread can do ;-)
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Ryuno-Ki » Wed Mar 06, 2013 14:01

Yep, I'm not tough enough to answer the poll.
But concerning SystemD, there was a talk on the mailinglist back in August 2012.

Concerning PulseAudio or ALSA: My opinion: I'm glad, if it works. I care for how it does, if it won't work. Otherwise I don't bother.

Hm, I'm more worried about Canonicals eccentricity than about RedHats one. As far as I know RedHat's developer give back some code to upstream at least …
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Stupot » Wed Mar 06, 2013 17:19

With Ubuntu's "Mir" announcement, systemD almost seems like a non-issue.
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Matte88 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 22:50

Stupot wrote:With Ubuntu's "Mir" announcement, systemD almost seems like a non-issue.
You say that, bro! Hope Wayland will continue on their path!
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby nachoig » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:10

PulseAudio is here because ALSA is not a sound server.

systemd is not only about sppeed. systemd is more than this, eg: it's capable to track all daemons, its unit files are much better than SysV's scripts, these unit files aren't distro-specific, it has excelent administrative tools. No, I can't compare this with OpenRC. OpenRC is only an inprovemente running on top of SysVinit, but it falls in the limitations of SysV... Also, parallelisation in OpenRC doesn't work properly.

systemd is a cross-distro project, there are people from Mageia, Debian, Arch, Frugalware...

OpenRC in Debian: nothing concrete. It's not present in Wheezy. OTOH, systemd can be used in Wheezy (but it's not the default init system)

GRUB2: many people doesn't understand how it works. The configuration file is /etc/default/grub, not /boot/grub/grub.cfg. GRUB2 delivers UEFI support, UUID support., a better way to configure it... But one thing is true: it's not a solution for longterm. For UEFI systems, EFISTUB from Linux and Gummboot are better than GRUB.

X: X is bloated, and it has a lot of non-functional code and needs a lot of ugly workarounds.

GNOME: their focus is mobile devices. From this point, it's posible to undesrtand why they are doing this.
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby micia » Tue Mar 19, 2013 15:34

nachoig wrote:PulseAudio is here because ALSA is not a sound server.

Actually PulseAudio is here to unify the Linux sound libraries and provide an unified API, this is why it has an extensible plugin architecture with numerous backends. Which doesn't make sense in the first place since it aims to unify audio libraries fragmentation by providing one more fragment. :lol:
Additionally, a sound server itself doesn't make much sense, as it only increases layers and sound latency and sound programming complexity, as you have to keep in mind anything you do is asynchronous, moreover any feature provided by the PulseAudio server could be achieved extending ALSA itself, or even OSS, and this is demonstrated by OSS4.

systemd is not only about sppeed. systemd is more than this

That is an interesting point made by systemd creator himself just recently, I guess that's why he spent about 3 conferences explaining how fast systemd is compared to other alternatives, without focusing on many other relevant arguments. :lol:

it's capable to track all daemons, its unit files are much better than SysV's scripts, these unit files aren't distro-specific, it has excelent administrative tools.

Its features have been implemented on many other less known (and advertized) init systems, such as s6, runit, upstart. Among them s6 is very interesting, since it is completely SysV compatible. Whether or not shell scripts are better is not that easy to say, as shell scripts are much more flexible, you'll also notice that many systemd unit files resort to invoking shell scripts to start daemons, which kinda defeats the purpose of having them.

No, I can't compare this with OpenRC. OpenRC is only an inprovemente running on top of SysVinit, but it falls in the limitations of SysV... Also, parallelisation in OpenRC doesn't work properly.

Parallelization in OpenRC does work, as cgroups support does, the fact that rc_parallel isn't recommended because synchronous boot is safer doesn't mean that it isn't working.

X: X is bloated, and it has a lot of non-functional code and needs a lot of ugly workarounds.

The core X protocol hasn't been updated in 30 years with the excuse "We are not the X consortium", thus it has only been extended and worked around, I see little point in complaining about X when nobody done a single thing to improve it. I'd actually say it's a pretty good and solid standard if it has been able to survive and be extended all these years.
Regardless X, this doesn't explain why Mir has been announced despite Wayland doing exactly the same thing, little plausible explainations are available for this...

Anyway, as long as nothing gets forced on users, anyone is free to use and support whatever is better to him/her. :)
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Re: SystemD, just like Pulsef*** and GRUB2, is a mess!

Postby Matte88 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 16:59

micia wrote:increases layers and sound latency and sound programming complexity, as you have to keep in mind anything you do is asynchronous
:wink:
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