Political changes in the kernel's updates

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Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby nachoig » Thu Dec 20, 2012 22:51

Currently, Sabayon offers 5 different version of sabayon-linux: 3.2 to 3.6. Also, 3.7 is already in limbo.

But I don't like

First: kernels 3.3, 3.5 and 3.6 are in EOL. They don't receive any updates from upstream, including updates for security bugs.

3.2 and 3.4 are LTS kernels. They are receiving updates from upstream, but unfortunately these updates are not being incorporates to these versions in Sabayon. The last update for the Linux 3.2 in Sabayon was in May.
https://packages.sabayon.org/quicksearc ... .2&x=0&y=0

The same goes for 3.4. Last update was in August
https://packages.sabayon.org/quicksearc ... .4&x=0&y=0

But at the same time, Sabayon continues to provide modules/applications updates for no longer mantained kernels, like VirtualBox, nVidia and ATI drivers, wireless drivers, etc. But now, imagine provide updates for 6 kernel at the same time!!!! It's a total waste of time and resources.

So, I suggest:

1. Force users to update to the latest kernel and provides modules updates only for them.
2. If the developers don't want to force these updates, choice the latest LTS kernel to use by default in Sabayon (at this time 3.4) and provide the updates for this version from upstream. Offer the latest stable kernel and its modules for who wants a more bleeding edge system and stop to provide modules updates for older kernels.

Also it would be great update the slot's number, or at least, sync the release version (r1, r2, r3, etc.) with the correspondent upstream version.
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby lxnay » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:50

Latest and greatest, updating old kernels is a waste of time and breaks existing status quo. LTS sounds very Ubuntuish, no thanks. I know what I am doing, but I am always open to more contributors on the kernel stuff (it's NOT trivial stuff though).
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby tekwyzrd » Fri Dec 21, 2012 21:58

Ubuntuish? Like Rigo?
Former Sabayon user (2005 - 2013) and current Arch user.
I liked Sabayon until it switched to Rigo and becoming the gentoo equivalent of Ubuntu. Extreme browsing? Extreme gaming? Extreme work? Extreme development? Like, totally gnarly, dude!
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby nachoig » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:42

lxnay wrote:Latest and greatest, updating old kernels is a waste of time and breaks existing status quo.


And updating drivers and applications like VirtualBox for old kernels is a waste of time too, isn't it?

lxnay wrote: LTS sounds very Ubuntuish, no thanks. I know what I am doing, but I am always open to more contributors on the kernel stuff (it's NOT trivial stuff though).


What? Read again, please. LTS is only a terminology. It's not an Ubuntu creation. Anyway, my idea is inspired by Arch, not Ubuntu.

Use LTS kernel would be an insteresting option for who doesn't know to update the kernel mannually. But only for use in case if you don't want to force a major kernel update.
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby lxnay » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:25

nachoig wrote:
lxnay wrote:Latest and greatest, updating old kernels is a waste of time and breaks existing status quo.


And updating drivers and applications like VirtualBox for old kernels is a waste of time too, isn't it?


FALSE.
http://packages.sabayon.org/quicksearch ... ox-modules
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby Stupot » Sat Dec 22, 2012 21:01

nachoig wrote:But I don't like

First: kernels 3.3, 3.5 and 3.6 are in EOL. They don't receive any updates from upstream, including updates for security bugs.


I get that you don't particularly like this, but that certainly isn't a good enough reason, in my opinion, for Sabayon to change the way it does things.

Also, just because the kernel itself doesn't receive security patches from the kernel devs does not necessarily mean that patches aren't applied by somebody else down the line.

I get your point as far as perhaps it would be nice if official Sabayon releases only contained kernels that are supported long term, but that pretty much goes against what Sabayon is all about. It's about being as cutting edge while still being stable. Security, while it is not something to be ignored, is not the main priority of this distro.
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby lxnay » Sat Dec 22, 2012 21:07

Security is another thing, and we do apply security updates whenever there is a CVE.
I understand that you don't know much about we work over here though.

Kernels are special, drivers most of the times live of quirks, and the quirks code can change from a minor stable release to another, making systems stop working all of a sudden. Rushing to apply the very latest stable patchset has also other interesting side effects (see 3.6.1, 3.6.2 kernels and the ext4 bug for instance).

Let us do the job and don't worry. If you want LTS nonsense, just use Ubuntu and have fun with kernels that have been released 6 months or more ago.
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Re: Political changes in the kernel's updates

Postby nachoig » Sat Dec 22, 2012 21:44

lxnay wrote:
nachoig wrote:
lxnay wrote:Latest and greatest, updating old kernels is a waste of time and breaks existing status quo.


And updating drivers and applications like VirtualBox for old kernels is a waste of time too, isn't it?


FALSE.
http://packages.sabayon.org/quicksearch ... ox-modules


Exactly! 3.3 and 3.5 are older kernels too, like the 2.6 series. 3.2, and 3.4 without any support, except for their modules, can be considered old too.

lxnay wrote:Security is another thing, and we do apply security updates whenever there is a CVE.
I understand that you don't know much about we work over here though.

Kernels are special, drivers most of the times live of quirks, and the quirks code can change from a minor stable release to another, making systems stop working all of a sudden. Rushing to apply the very latest stable patchset has also other interesting side effects (see 3.6.1, 3.6.2 kernels and the ext4 bug for instance).

Let us do the job and don't worry. If you want LTS nonsense, just use Ubuntu and have fun with kernels that have been released 6 months or more ago.


Anyway, for me this is not a problem, I'm not a beginner in Linux world. Upgrade kernels in Sabayon for me is trivial, and I like to use the latest stable kernels. Currently, I'm in the 3.6 kernel (and I'm waiting for 3.7 in Weekly to update). I don't have interest in use LTS kernels. I wrote this topic thinking in unexperienced users, because they don't know how to update the kernel mannualy, forcing them to use obsolete kernels. But anyway, Ubuntu should be a better option for these users (or Mageia and openSUSE) than Sabayon. In my eyes, Sabayon is a distro for intermediate and advanced users.

Cheers

Stupot wrote:
nachoig wrote:But I don't like

First: kernels 3.3, 3.5 and 3.6 are in EOL. They don't receive any updates from upstream, including updates for security bugs.


I get that you don't particularly like this, but that certainly isn't a good enough reason, in my opinion, for Sabayon to change the way it does things.


LOL! I forgot the words! Please, ignore it.

Cheers
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