DistroWatch

[Thev00d00]

Ive asked Lxnay to get the ATi issues sorted with 4.2 (and include dual ati drivers), please try to remember that this is mostly caused by upstream ****ing us over rather than anything sabayon does.

[turquoise]

As interesting as this is, the artwork and development section might be a better place to discuss this than the french shed I think.

It is true that there are still some problems upstream with some drivers, the ATI example being a good one, and some that are linked to the Sabayon project itself. There is no denying that but on the other hand, having been on ship for almost three years, it's easy to see how much work was done. There will always remain things to be done since there is a constant evolution in Linux, the apps, the hardware, and in the computer world in general but we must not ignore what has been done either.

The remark concerning mining the forum posts to target problems is to the point I think. There is the bugzilla but many people do not have the reflex to post there so some things may slip between the cracks. I'm thinking about the foreign sheds in particular since many who post there might not have a good grasp of English and might be incomfortable with the bugzilla interface as a result. Other users, I'm not so sure but it would be intersting to know the proportion of people who do post on the bugzilla when they have a problem.

[Fitzcarraldo]

turquoise, you're right about the forum being odd for this discussion. I've moved this thread from the French forum to the Sabayon Linux General Discussion forum (rather than Artwork and Development Suggestions forum) as I think the topic encompasses more than just development issues.

And thanks for backing me up on mining the forum to target problems. I'm not sure how this could be done using the phpBB forum software, though. Thinking 'on the hoof', although not ideal it might go some way to helping monitor trends if every post had a set of tick boxes with 'reason codes', with it being mandatory for the poster to select at least one. Say, for the sake of example, that the tick boxes were things like: [x] Not reporting a problem; [ ] LiveDVD/CD problem; [ ] Boot problem; [ ] Video problem; [ ] Sound problem; [ ] Network problem; [ ] Wireless problem; [ ] Package Manager problem; [ ] Application problem; [ ] Other problem. Not ideal, I know, but I wonder if something like that would be possible within the existing forum software and, if it were, would it be of any use? Or could Google Trends be used just on the SL Forums, I wonder (rather like some sites have Google Search for that site only)? Any other suggestions?

In his blog, Joost recently posted the link to a video of a presentation at a Linux Fest Northwest meeting, called "Linux Sucks", which is long but worth watching. As I wrote in my comment on Joost's blog, all the comments made by the speaker about the shortcomings of Linux are well known to seasoned Linux users. Anyone who frequents any Linux distribution's forums will see the problems he mentions crop up time and time again. However, although these problems are common across all distros, some distros are worse than others in certain areas, so I think some statistics for SL might be useful, especially if they can be linked to a time line as Google Trends does. Anyway, just a thought.

[turquoise]

Yeah, General or Artwork and Dev both fit I think.

One thing is certain : if we compare the number or issues on the forum and on the bugzilla, they don't match. From there, we can suppose two things :

1) There is a mine of additionnal information available in the forums if only we could gather it and compile it properly.

I'll be the first one to admit that I have no idea how to do this technically, although the trends option or something like it would probably be more efficient because it's automatic. Checking a box isn't a bad idea but it's on a voluntary basis and if you feel your issue doesn't fit anywhere, you might check the wrong one or none at all.

2) People do not post to the bugzilla as much as they should for whatever reason.

Now, the whatever reason is where it gets interesting... Is it because they do not feel comfortable with the interface, because they feel their problem is not important enough, because they decide to call it quits so it becomes irrelevant to them whether the problem is solved or not, or simply because they feel it's useless? I know the first one to be a potential issue for people speaking other languages and I've tried to adress the issue there by writing a quick howto but the other issues are another story. Maybe something could be done about that but again, how is probably not so easy to figure out.

[Thev00d00]

Is it because they do not feel comfortable with the interface, because they feel their problem is not important enough, because they decide to call it quits so it becomes irrelevant to them whether the problem is solved or not, or simply because they feel it's useless?

Most users report there issues on the forums, which is a very ineffective way of getting any issue permanently resolved as you tend to find work arounds instead, and the core issue tends not to get sorted, ala the r300-r500 support being dropped.

I know the first one to be a potential issue for people speaking other languages and I've tried to adress the issue there by writing a quick howto but the other issues are another story. Maybe something could be done about that but again, how is probably not so easy to figure out.

As "maintainer" of the bugzilla, I agree more work is needed on making it user friendly, we need to make sure that if pople are reporting bugs that they are proving all the information needed and what they are reporting is a bug. (see http://bugs.sabayonlinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711) My plan is to use a "guided" bugzilla template by default which should help.

As for internationalisation, I would support that so long as the devs can read the contents of the reports....

[tekwyzrd]

Yeah, General or Artwork and Dev both fit I think.

One thing is certain : if we compare the number or issues on the forum and on the bugzilla, they don't match. From there, we can suppose two things :

1) There is a mine of additionnal information available in the forums if only we could gather it and compile it properly.

I'll be the first one to admit that I have no idea how to do this technically, although the trends option or something like it would probably be more efficient because it's automatic. Checking a box isn't a bad idea but it's on a voluntary basis and if you feel your issue doesn't fit anywhere, you might check the wrong one or none at all.

2) People do not post to the bugzilla as much as they should for whatever reason.

>snip

I can understand why some may hesitate when it comes to bugzilla. It's a bit disturbing to take the time to report a problem then have it marked invalid and discarded without a solution offered. On the forum there's a reasonable chance someone will offer a solution.

[turquoise]

Agreed on all counts. It's true that some useless bugs are reported while others are never reported because people report it on the forum and make do with workarounds and that at other times, it can be frustrating to see what you feel is a serious problem being discarded.

As far as user-friendly goes, I've been told repeatedly that if you want most people to understand something, you have to imagine your user as a nine-year-old kid. So anyone got one on hand to test the bugzilla?

Personnally, I don't think it's too complicated but it isn't the case for everyone apparently. As far as the language issue goes, when I wrote that little howto, I also added an offer for translation help but no takers on that yet. Besides, it's mostly for the description of the problem, the rest is about choosing the right items in lists and joining relevant files.

[WarraWarra]

Just been informed no joy , time is past , we can try again next year for donations / funding.



O well will see what else I can organize and try and try again.

[turquoise]

Bummer. But it's true that while it's a done deal for this year, there is still next year and something can be learned for the next time...

I might be able to help with that by the way. I'm not a technical genius in any way but I do know a thing or two about finding the right words and I also know people who have a lot of experience with finding sponsors in both the corporate and the educationnal field. If you think that might be of some help, PM me.