Greatest Linux's enemy?!?!

[GregK]

How do you think???

[Jesterhead]

stupid hardware vendors which arent able to support the community with docs and specs about their hardware...

and stupid hardware vendors which are publishing crappy drivers...

and slashdot...................

[GregK]

stupid hardware vendors which arent able to support the community with docs and specs about their hardware...

and stupid hardware vendors which are publishing crappy drivers...

and slashdot...................

And don't You think they are sometimes being paid for that? Because at time to time I've got that strange impression that Bill secretly "encourages" them to do so...

[Lasse]

I will definitivly have to agree with Jesterhead.

If the hardware producers would open their eyes, it would be much simpler for the end-users to choose their OS of choice. For some newcomers to Linux, it is hard to understand why they have to do a background check before they can buy any new hardware..

I contacted Dell yesterday, wanting to buy myself e new laptop as a late christmas gift. Strangely they would only sell me a laptop with Windows preinstalled (with an expensive license..). I contacted them in an online chat, and asked if there was no possibility to get the machine without any OS preinstalled. I was told, no that is not an option.. But, as this machine was nice (and only 200€ to expensive), I contacted them by telephone to get a straight forward answer. The Dell sales-representative could tell me that they had en agreement with Microsoft that obliged them to sell all PC's with WinXXX preinstalled, and that they had no way to sell me a PC without OS installed.. So yes, Microsoft is also making life harder (and more expencive) for some Linux users.

And for the record, I told the Dell representative that I would not buy any computers from them, due to the agreement they have with Microsoft. Just so annoying that I will not bee the lucky owner of that machine..

[GregK]

If the hardware producers would open their eyes, it would be much simpler for the end-users to choose their OS of choice. For some newcomers to Linux, it is hard to understand why they have to do a background check before they can buy any new hardware..

I know is several countries you can buy a computer (it is usually laptop) with some distribuion of Linux pre-installed. In Poland I've met California Access computers (I've got no idea where do they really come from) with Mandriva and also I know that in South Africa HP laptops are being sold with Ubuntu pre-installed. Maybe if we (I mean: WE = LINUX ) could somehow convince more computer producers to that solution (I belive it's profitable for both sides - producers and customers) it would force hardware manufacturers to - as You say - opening their eyes...

[Jesterhead]

Those preinstalled windows PC´s are easy to explain:

The vendor makes a deal with MS, to only deliver PC´s with Windows on it. and Microsoft give Windows CHeaper away to them...

This is called Business

[GregK]

Those preinstalled windows PC´s are easy to explain:

The vendor makes a deal with MS, to only deliver PC´s with Windows on it. and Microsoft give Windows CHeaper away to them...

This is called Business

And this is a chance for Linux! We don't need any money from any vendor - it's enough they will make Linux more popular by pre-installing it, and for them it's beneficial too. They can have Linux for free and still be able to say: "our computers have operating system" rather than saying the same but paing for Windows (and as long as Linux comes for free, it doesn't matter whether Windows costs them $99 or $399).

[random guy]

game producers big time. if it iwasnt for their lack of support there would be absolutely no reason for windows.

and dont tell me linux games are good because frankly they are way behind.

about vending computers with linux. yes it is very good for some companies but remember that most people cant use linux. either because they have whatever work software that needs another os or because they are simply not skilled enough.

like take my grandma who may or may not know what a mouse is and tell her to use linux, it will just end up in disaster. every os has its base

windows: people who have no technical skill whatsoever
apple: people who have a little technical skill but not enough to use linux
solaris: smart people but they are paid to use solaris instead of linux so they do so.
linux: people who know a lot about comptuers and want a quality os.

[seth]

I am a software developer at amateur level, I am writing a big piece of (virtual) paper for my university thesis and I have gained some experience during the years. I am not a pro, I do not get money (yet) for game development and I have tried a whole bunch of Operative Systems, and I don't take any part, my opinion is totally indipentent.
That said, I think it's not possible to blame game developers for the very few games that run on Linux. Consider that even on Mac there aren't that many, and as long as the system progresses the number of available game decreases. The problem is that it's quite harder for a company to write games for linux. If I want to make a very good game that costs me a lot (pay programmers, pay 2d/3d artists etc) I don't want to give the source obviously. And there isn't a real ALL-THE-LINUX_DISTROS standard for packaging. The available tools make development more nasty when it comes to games, in my opinion. Video Card drivers can't be shipped with the OS and this cause poroblems to users that can't install them theirselves... and this is a huge number of people that actually buys it.
Consider also that most of game developers uses directx that's not available on linux. I use OpenGL, but still I have some troubles time to time. Ubuntu 3rd party software can be installed like amsn, but this system is not a standard. Different distros takes different solutions, so it's hard to give guarantees. XGL gets in trouble with full screen, this is not a SIDE effect, cause many people still use XGL.
If there is no huge standardisation and no "betterment" of some tools, if there is no good solutions to driver, codecs and so on, if there is no huge innovation like a multiplatform great challenger of direct x (sdl is good but it's not possible to do the same things yet)... it is hard.
The big game on Linux was quake 3/4 but now seems (rumors) ID is completely joining Microsoft's side...
Summing up: standardisation, new clauses, more and better tools... linux people need to join forces at a distro indepindent level!
Possibly merging results like the ones ReactOS got could help...

Help game developers helping you!

[frogimus]

Games --> get a console
Console>PC for games

Dell OS - Dell has allowed rebates for removing MS from their PCs. The reason that they sell MS pre-installed is due more to the manner in which they manufacture the equipment rather than any trade agreements with MS. There are some interesting threads at fedoraforum about some users documenting their refund requests with Dell and Acer.

Also, please bear in mind that Dell Technical Support consists of minimum wage workers reading from an If/Then/Else script.