Forum suggestion

[ReemZ]

One thing that I like to do is to list the steps in my posts after figuring them out, whether from the instructions of others, meaning posting the steps that have worked for me. This grew out of seeing similar posts where someone had written "got it! thanks!", and I sure wished they had said HOW they had gotten it. Personally I feel it would be a good practice for people on forums in general to post the steps when they have figured them out, wherever they came from. This would go a long ways to creating individual "stickies", as often people use a search engine like google to find answers to questions.

Thanks for your comments.

Completely agree, but after posting it in the thread (and marking the thread [Solved], of course) you could also...?

Exactly, edit the appropriate Wiki

[Stupot]

I have spent hours in the wiki before looking for answers to specific questions, and must say that the wiki might be excellent for someone who already knows all the answers, but not for someone who is starting from scratch, as it is not specific enough in the basics, step by step. In that sense, it is not at all like a math textbook, because a lot of things are left out. Some people are so advanced that they just don't see this, and give a brief answer with a lol like the person is supposed to figure out everything else, not ever having seen it before.

Actually, this is exactly why my mathbook example still holds true. If you want to learn how to do integrals and you skip straight to the Integrals section in a calc book, you are absolutely going to be lost. You have to learn the basics before you can learn how to do the complicated stuff. Granted, wiki's aren't always as nicely laid out as math book, but that's because learning linux isn't as linear as learning math.

Anyway, you'll never hear me say that you shouldn't help out somebody if you know how to, but the best way to help people is to teach them how to learn. How exactly you should do that is the question nobody can answer with 100% certainty.

[jhonnymarsh]

The search function is not adequate when the same question is asked and covered over and over again, proper keywords do not work, not many options, other than to ask again.

[ReemZ]

Such a very amazing link!
Thanks you for the post.

Thank you for your comment, hope you enjoy Sabayon just as much

[Fitzcarraldo]

He's a spammer, Reemz, did you not notice his signature? Or perhaps he added the spam link later. Anyway, I've deleted his post and his account. (BTW, I do like your original suggestion in this thread, but some people don't seem to read what's staring them in the face!)

[ReemZ]

He's a spammer, Reemz, did you not notice his signature? Or perhaps he added the spam link later. Anyway, I've deleted his post and his account. (BTW, I do like your original suggestion in this thread, but some people don't seem to read what's staring them in the face!)

Damn, no, hadn't noticed the sig, then again it was around 7am and I hadn't seen my bed yet

[johnlvs2run]

Helping people with linux is a lot like helping people with math. They'll come to you with a specific problem that they can't figure out and they want you to give them the answer. You can give them answer, but they won't learn how to do that type of problem.

I disagree with this, coming back to this thread as I feel this to be an ongoing issue with learning sabayon, and also regarding learning in general. The question, does showing someone how to get the answer to their question, help them?

One way is to not them how to get the answer, but point them to the wiki.

Another way is to show them how them step by step how to get the answer to their question, maybe even show them the answer first, and then show them the steps. Then the next day I ask, did you try the solution? How did it work for you? Maybe they had some problem or didn't understand part of the steps, or maybe they did the steps wrong (same thing), so we go through them again.

After doing this for awhile (in other areas, not computer), I can see that everyone has more or less the same problems, they don't understand certain steps, or the steps work different ways in some situations then others. Perhaps I got the answer easily, but my background was different, and maybe I didn't see the steps because I was only focused on an outcome. Now I need to see the steps and be able to convey them in order to show other people.

This is important because just sending people back to windows is not such a good outcome. If linux and sabayon are better, then part of my mission (if I was computer expert) should be to show this to people - the same that since I'm a proponent of exercise, especially as people get older, so it is important to me in my life to show this to people, how to live longer and be healthy, which is MY reponsibility - not theirs - for me to show them this way, because I am the expert in exercise, so it would not be a good outcome for me to tell them to be lazy.

It should be easy for experts to help people in very elementary ways and to put together step by step methods to learn, especially as things on computer are done over and over the same ways every time. I for one would very much like to learn the step by step methods as basis for figuring out more things for myself. Also, to do this is GOOD FOR THE EXPERTS, as to see complicated processes in elementary ways is progression.

I like where at some times someone has given me a step by step method, and also shown me the outcome. Sometimes people have said "why don't you put that on the wiki" - but still I have very little understanding of sabayon to put anything anywhere. Well I just happened to see this thread and thought I would add to the discussion, and maybe this will help some progression - and also I have more questions to ask.

[Stupot]

Whoa, talk about dragging up an old post....

And regardless, I wasn't saying don't help them and don't (in the end) give them the answer, but you can't start out by directly giving them the answer and expect them to still care how you got there. Sure, some might, but most won't.

Instead, you work with them and show them how to get to the answer themselves, correcting them if they make mistakes along the way.

I STAND BY MY MATHEMATICAL ANALOGY!

[johnlvs2run]

I wasn't saying don't help them and don't (in the end) give them the answer, but you can't start out by directly giving them the answer and expect them to still care how you got there. Sure, some might, but most won't.

Well maybe we're saying the same thing. To me, the answer is the steps. When I know the steps and/or where to get the steps, then I can apply them to other questions and maybe help others. When I used Ubuntu for a couple years before going back to XP then first trying Sabayon, when I was given the steps or found them, I could learn them and then pass them on to others who asked similar questions, and that worked. I've not been able to do this with Sabayon because the steps here have more of a generally closed philosophy.

For example, tonight a simple question I asked about Installation in the Installation Section was moved somewhere else, because apparently it was beneath being answered.

Instead, you work with them and show them how to get to the answer themselves, correcting them if they make mistakes along the way.

Yes, well I think we feel the same way about that.

I STAND BY MY MATHEMATICAL ANALOGY!

this is exactly why my mathbook example still holds true. If you want to learn how to do integrals and you skip straight to the Integrals section in a calc book, you are absolutely going to be lost. You have to learn the basics before you can learn how to do the complicated stuff.

True. However I will be satisfied to solve just the basic math up to algebra.

The sad thing is that I probably know more about how to use a computer than 99 percent of the people in the U.S. and yet on Sabayon I'm made to look like a dumdum, so I think something is wrong with that example. I have given speeches about using the computer to groups, and it turned out that none of them had my knowledge - which is just basic how to use a computer information. So, what about all those 99 percent of the people - apparently none of us are qualified to ask an Installation question, in the Installation Section of the forum - without it being totally ignored - with a disparaging lecture by said person - and moved to some other section.

Oh and these questions, I've not seen them answered 100's of times. I have looked up questions I've asked, and seen them ignored the same way they're ignored when I've asked them - and I'm not talking about the nice people who've helped, because I AM much appreciative of this. Perhaps it is the ones who stand out as some AUTHORITY - too good - because they could answer a question in 5 seconds, but instead of that take a few minutes to move it somewhere else. Anyway, thanks for helping.

[ReemZ]

For example, tonight a simple question I asked about Installation in the Installation Section was moved somewhere else, because apparently it was beneath being answered.

Link please?

Perhaps it is the ones who stand out as some AUTHORITY - too good - because they could answer a question in 5 seconds, but instead of that take a few minutes to move it somewhere else. Anyway, thanks for helping.

The highest authorities in Sabayon are usually too busy to answer every single question, but when they do, they're usually quite helpful. And knowing them both personally, I can assure you they're really nice, just a tad mental